Tue 1 Aug 2006
Horcruxes, Houses, and Elements
Posted by Horcrux Citizen under Horcruxes, Symbols
[8] Comments
Litch, on Myspace, says:
I saw this on MuggleNet once and it really got me thinking…..JKRowling came up with the four Houses with a specific element in mind. (This is true, she really did do this, not a theory)
Gryffindor – Fire
Slytherin – Water
Hufflepuff – Earth
Ravenclaw – Wind
Considering that for the Horcruxes we have the piece in Voldy himself, the diary, the ring, the cup, the locket, nagini, and something of Ravenclaws’ (Yes Ravenclaw! Not something of Gryffindors cause Gryffindor already has a sword and if he gets the Horcurx too than Ravenclaw is left with nothing.)
Alrighty, so we have Slytherin’s Locket, and Sly’s element is water. And the location where the locket was hidden was very watery. In the cave, the blood tribute, the ocean, the lake, the potion.
therefore, it is believable that voldy hid Huffy’s Cup and Raven’s item in locations haveing to do with their respective elements, earth and wind.
Hufflepuff – As we know the Bones family is a long line of Hufflepuffs, and I have to double check my facts on this, but Amelia Bones is dead and I believe the last descendant is Susan Bones at Hogwarts with Harry. And since the Bones’s are such a huge line of Huffy’s it is believable that the cup is buried in the grave/earth of Amelia or another Bones relative. Likely protected by things like living trees and attacking roots, kinda like the maze in GoF. Maybe Susan Bones will hold the key to getting it.
Also, it is clearly stated that Voldy killed Amelia Bones HIMSELF. Now why would he risk coming out of hiding for this particular person? Maybe he knew that one of the last members of such a strong Hufflepuff ancestry would be able to retrieve the Hufflepuff Horcrux or maybe she knew something about it and Voldy had to make sure she was silenced.
Another theory is Zacharius Smith, a Hufflepuff at school with Harry, is theorized to be related to Hepzaba Smith, who is a direct descendant of Helga Hufflepuff. Therefore he could be related to Hufflepuff, so maybe he holds the key to retrieving the cup.
Ravenclaw – Element is wind. therefore it is very likely that her horcrux will be hidden in the sky. Protected by things such as that. Shouldnt be too hard for harry teh great flyer to get it down.
But what exactly is Ravenclaw’s Horcrux. I think it will either be her wand or a tiara. The wand has the attributes of her element, wind, being swished and flicked around. But Im leaning towards the tiara because the Grey Lady, the Raven House Ghost, is described as wearing a tiara. Also, in HBP Mrs. Weasley tells Fleur she can wear her great aunts old tiara for the wedding. and lastly, in HBP when harry is hiding the Potions book in the Room of Requierement, he hids it in a wardrobe and puts a bust on top and a tiara on top of the bust.
Well, these are just my opinions mixed in with MuggleNet.
To which I replied:
very well thought out and farther than I have gone in the houses-elements line. Fleur and the tiara fits with Jason’s thinking, which links her with Hufflepuff and Krum with Ravenclaw, which also makes a lot of sense with your wind analogy (maybe air is a better word, but I won’t argue).
What trips me up is this – water is the element of – LOVE. It’s main symbol – the moon – Is Luna Lovegood the true slytherin elemental archetype?
Mmm… Lets see… Holes in this…
1) Nagini is a living creature. Why would Lord Voldemort put a part of his soul which should be preserved for immortality in something so perishable and mortal. Furthermore, all Horcruxes were probably created before Lord Voldemort… err… slight problem with baby Harry (if he wasn’t planning to create the last one after killing his predicted nemesis) and we cannot be sure that Nagini was already with the Dark Lord at the time.
2) Lord Voldemort has hidden his Horcruxes in places closely related to *him* (the Gaunts’ House, the cave near his horphanage, a DE’s manor…). What would the Bones have to do with all of this?
[I like the association of Hepzibah and Zacharias Smith... Too bad Smith is like, what?, the most common surname in the Commonwealth? If Mark Evans is not related to Lily Evans, it's also highly plausible to assume Hepzibah has nothing to do with Zacharias. And also if she had, we go back to the Bones' objection.]
3) Err… I simply don’t get the tiara references! Sure, there’s some mentions of tiaras throughout the books but I suspect it’s only because “tiara” gives an idea of elegance: of something valuable to be worn at a wedding, something the lone spirit of an abandoned lady would wear or the latest curiosity to be found in the storage room of the Room of Requirement. Whenever have we heard a specific reference to a Ravenclaw Tiara? The fact that Nearly-Headless-Nick likes to play headless polo doesn’t mean polo was Gryffindor’s favourite sport…
And linking back to Molly’s tiara: that piece of jewellery seems to have been in the Prewett famiy for generations. How would young Tom have managed to get his hands on it and why didn’t he hide it after making the Horcrux? And again, Molly’s family is related to the Black family. How does that link back to Rowena, if half of them are Slytherins and the other half Gryffindor: you’d expect at least *one* heir to be in their ancestor’s House…
I agree with Alexandra. The only thing gathered that I’m willing to accept as poosible is the Smith connection. But, as Alexandra said, its a very common name.
And how about this– Another Horcrux is at the Riddle Manor? It seems to fit the pattern.
a) Has visited there (even resided there)
b) Remeber…Dumbledore said he made a Horcrux when he killed the gardener (I think his name was Frank Bryce).
c) If there is a time limit on making a horcrux he would have to make it fast so it would be at that Manor.
What do you think?
Truly possible.
Probably the Frank Bryce-Horcrux is the one many associate with Nagini, but it *could* be something else (especially as I don’t think Nagini is a Horcrux)… The only problem is: how did Lord Voldemort, or better Pettegrew, get hold of a Founders’ relic or something equally simbolic over such a short notice?
The one option I can envision (but it’s just wild elucubration) is that Lord Voldemort had planned to make his last Horcrux after killing baby Harry and since in that occasion he was turned worse than ghost and the house collapsed, the object he had chosen was left there under the debris: nobody finds it for the next 14 years, Lord Voldemort sends Pettegrew there as soon as they get back to England, he gets the Horcrux-to-be and Lord Voldemort kills Frank Bryce, splitting his soul for the seventh time. In book VII Harry goes to Godric’s Hollow, finds some clues that Hermione cleverly deciphers and the gang goes on to find the Horcrux in Little Hangleton.
Latest problems (which actually arose as I was writing the above):
1) The Horcrux spell sounds pretty tough: can we be sure that a grumpy little larva would be able to perform it? Albeit the larva being the remainders of the second-most powerful wizard of this time. This against the possibility of an Horcrux being created out of Frank Bryce’s death.
2) Err… The O.C. got the best of me and I forgot what I was going to say… *me sorry*… I’ll post my objection to my own theory when I remember what I was gonna say… (it might only be a punishment for being so weird as to crash my own theories…)
I found that, while reading DD says that he DID intend Harry to be the final Horcrux…That means he HAD an idea of what the next orcrux would be. WOW I can believe I found that. He knew what object the piece-of-soul would go in…I cant believe I found that!!
Oh yeah…Dumbledore said that he made Nagini the horcrux . I forgot about that. I can’t imagaine nagini being a horcrux too. It would be out of my head if DD hadn’t said it. But, I think that will be wrong with one of them.
And one more thing…Why did you say “…larva being the remainders of the second-most powerful wizard of this time” You said Second-most…who is more powerful than Voldy (larvae or not)? Im not accusing just wodering what you think…is it Dumbledore?
Thanks for listening
DD said V intended to create his final horcrux by killing Harry, not to make Harry into a horcrux. On that note, I have always found theories of Harry been a horcrux rather poorly thought through. As the diary has proven, a horcrux’s will will show itself and take control of the situation. In my oppinion, it is 100% certain that if Harry were a horcrux, he would be in Slytherin and by now a Death Eater and right hand of V.
I do agree with DD that perhaps V made Nagini the final horcrux. She symbolizes his relationship to Slytherin. Frank Bruce was the first meaningfull murder that V commited after regaining some strength. I don’t think he considered Bertha as much of a murder given her condition. That was more like disposal of useless and possibly harmful garbage given her condition.
Bones might very well matter, just as Smith might. Amelia Bones was a powerful witch who headed law enforcement at the ministry. No doubt, she possesed some knoweledge that could have been harmfull to V or was in position to act decisevely against him. I do not believe that he killed her because he thought she was related to horcruxes but this does not mean she wasn’t. It is my guess that founders’ objects have a connection to their descendents. Bones, Smith, Luna could be some of them. V underestimates and often ignores old magic. These objects are very old and have enchantements of their masters on them. I would not be surprised if the descendatns could somehow feel their locations and be drawn to them. It would be very much like J to make Harry work with Z.Smith to find the Hufflepuff’s cup.
A bit more on Luna. I have posted this in another respone of mine. I think Luna and Luna’s mom are Ravenclaw’s descendents. V killed Luna’s mom and staged it like an accident. An object that was treasured by her mother will be remembered by luna in book 7.
The object disappeared after the death.
On hiding places:
A cave where V exercized his powers to their full extent(at the time) for the first time.
Hogwarts – perhaps the only home for V. Also a place where he did much of his learning.
Gaunt’s house – a house of his ancestors.
All these places were visited by V durring his ascent to might. They all carry significant meaning to him.
Some other intresting places that he may consider meaningful:
Riddle house – Nagini’s hiding place when she is not with V?
Goddrik’s Hollow – he thought he was going to commit perhaps the most meaningful of his murders there. He could have decided to hide a recently acuired Ravenclaw’s item there while he was at it. Yeah, this is unlikely, even I doubt this could be the case.
I just thought of something, I need to reread the passage when Mad Eye gives Harry photo of Order of Phoenix and comments on it. I recall he said there was some couple that was killed personally by V. That could be highly related to this.
Borgin and Burkes – V spent quite a bit of time there and aquired at least 2 of his horcruxes while commiting at least 1 murder. If I recall correctly there was an old tiara on display there.
Yeah, sorry that was bad wording…I meant Voldemort had a specific object to put a fragment of his soul into once he had killed Harry. Obviously his plans were foiled when the curse rebounded. He didn;t have to look for a founders object, because he already had one found for when he was going to kill Harry.
While watching the 4th movie I noticed something. Remember when the two other schools come in and pick seats at the House tables? Durmstrang (dark arts school) sits at the Slytherin table and Beauxbatoms(is that spelled right?) sits with the Ravenclaws.
Remember the method of transportation used to get to Hogwarts by the two schools. We have Durmstrang, clearly a school supporting the Dark Arts and closely relating to Slytherin, traveling by boat through the Black Lake (Dark Lake?, I forget).
Beuaxbatoms travels via a flying carridge. The students then proceed to sit at the Ravenclaw table.
Notice the ELEMENTS that are involved with their travel, in correlation as to where they sit. Slytherin’s element, water, is represented by Durmstrang’s boat. Beauxbatoms travels through the air, Ravenclaw’s element.
Obviously this has nothing to do with Horcruxes, but I wanted to post it, so, there you go!
very nice catch John. My thinking on this flip flops a lot but it does pull into a very elemental environment.